Senior Olympian Sprinter

We just returned from a few days in Chicago, where we got to hang with the kids and enjoy a white Christmas.  It was great to get together for a few days and visit and check up on everyone.   I think everyone had  a great time  with our Yankee Swap and normal gift exchange.  The Yankee swap is where we basically open gag gifts for a couple of hours, it is a fun event,   Oh, and we also ate pretty well.  I got on my 'official' scale yesterday and managed to add 4 pounds to the darn thing in a week, looks like I had some fun this Christmas.   As I mentioned, it was a white Christmas in Chicago.  A little bit of new snow each of the 3 days we were in town.   Driving was only a challenge on one day.  Otherwise, the usual cloudy, cold winter time weather for the upper Midwest.   I do not miss the cold and snow mess.  I will go visit it and happily leave to the more temperate winters in TN. ...

Buckets, hoes and shovels Last week I was back to work after 6 weeks of Family Medical Leave.   Flying home on Friday I was absolutely exhausted,  it must have gotten travel soft during my time off.   I am traveling again this week for a short two day trip and hopefully I will be in better travel shape and have a little energy left when I get back late Wednesday.  Linda has her big 8 week follow up at the knee surgeon's this week and I have managed my schedule so I can be at the doctor visit.  This is the visit where you can ask the hard questions and hopefully get answers on lingering questions or issues.  She is not happy that she cannot get here new knee to straighten completely and she has been having some problems with hip pain.   Is this stuff all related??  Hopefully the cutter can shed some light on the situation.  Her overall progress is fantastic and she is basically independent now. I have been doing s...

Yep, I have been doing some mining as of late. Our house is build with a very short crawl space and access to some of the HVAC is in this area under the house.    I can only make myself only so thin, and that amount of thin would not fit into what it is needed to fit into.  Only way to get there was to dig.   So in the last couple of weeks I have been mining out dirt from under the house.  I have removed about 7 yards to date and need to get out a few more to really have great access.  Once I got out enough dirt to see all of the duct work, it was clear what had happened in the last couple for years before we bought he house.  The wild animals--foxes, skunks, groundhogs,etc had burrowed under the house and also had managed to destroy the flexible hoses used in the HVAC duct work below the floor.  There is a distribution duct with 7 outlets to various parts of the house and only one was intact.  The remainder had all the flexible hou...

A NFL football game ended in a tie yesterday and A LOT of people are mad that they ended in a tie.  Too bad,  I love a tie!!   You have good and bad ties.  A good tie is when one of the teams is happy.... they escaped with a tie--they were expecting to get beat.  On the other hand, you get bad ties when both teams  think they should have won the game and ended up tied.   Those are my favorites!!  Everyone is pissed.   So if everyone goes home mad, it is a good thing in my opinion.    And if they play again in the same season, it makes for some pay backs--better hitting, short tempers,  a lot of bad feelings all around... I love it.   The new rules on football allow for overtime in high school, college and pros, but I still like the traditional terms of "played to stalemate, kissed your sister, did not settle anything".......let them tie. For the playoffs, keep playing, somebody needs to survive and...

Today is my birthday, I am now 57 years old.   I appears that I will spend most of the day indoors, it is raining quite hard and windy as well.   So for starters  today we are watching yesterday's USA women's curling Olympic qualifier on DVR.    Linda and I both enjoy the matches.  There is a lot of shot making and strategy the whole way through.   And this winter we will get to see the Sochi Olympics curling this winter. There will be a lot of people yelling "hard" in various languages. Hopefully we send a team that can medal. Linda is recovering at a rapid pace from knee replacement.  She is fixing breakfast today and is also baking a cake!!! Yum.  She is making a German chocolate this year.  Yesterday we went to a wedding and she was able to make it about 2 hours before the pain from the knee and aggravation from the wedding party was enough.  She is gaining every day in strength and stamina....

I have been the caretaker for Linda for the last 7 days as she has been recuperating from the left knee replacement.   As you can see, she is getting around well, but she is still using the walker to support the knee joint.  We have been going to therapy daily at the local hospital and it is quite painful and exhausting, but it is critical to get the rehab completed.   After the daily sessions, it is usually ice, a pain pill, lunch and a little nap or rest.  Yesterday we actually tried to capture the  recovery "Progress" over time by recording the daily events that are improvement from the previous day as the healing progresses.  It is amazing the speed of recovery when you start at Day 1 when you are bed ridden to Day 2 walking on the steps at the hospital!!   Go home Day 3 and get out of bed by yourself on Day 10.  It is a very interesting list of daily accomplishments.  She has made fantasti...

I found out my Mom reads my blog, so I am doing this one in her honor--Hi Mom!  Linda came home from the hospital a day early, she only stayed two nights after having a new knee put in.  The staff said she was the "star patient" because she was very up to date on what they were doing and was really getting her legs back quickly.  She walked and did steps the day after surgery--pretty darn good in my opinion. Although we have only been home one full day, she is progressing well.  After her physical therapy (PT) today she was walking around the house without her walker.  Just like taking a diaper off a kid, they have to run off to show off a little.  We have a one hour PT session on Friday and four days next week,  I think her walker will be gone by late next week.  The pain is slowly going out of the leg, we use ice quite a bit to take care of the swelling and it is really helping. Buck, Linda's brother will be in town next week making a furn...

Today I am hanging around the waiting room at Vanderbilt Hospital waiting to see Linda after her new knee has been installed.    Get here early and wait, it is in many ways like an airport.   A little different crowd than an airport, much fewer professional people and a lot more people eating nervously and going out to get a smoke.   I went out to breakfast after Linda went into the OR, but I could probably bore through plenty of cookies or potato chips just like the rest of the crowd.   Linda  was in the OR about 3 hours and the doctor talked to me and said they got it finished.  His only comment was about a large amount of arthritis in the joint.   But her knee is done and we get to get healed up and on with life.    The knee has been a real problem for several years and we hope they is now in the past.   There is no way to be prepared for this waiting activity.    The nervous edge is just brutal,  you hope, ...

I am well into my off season for track.   But that does not mean that all physical activity just stops.   I have not trained at all for several weeks and I and feeling pretty good.  My feet are doing fine and I have not worn any KT tape since the District meet in September.   Overall my health is solid and I could train if needed, but I have instead worked on several projects at the Fly Farm to eliminate large quantities of overgrown landscaping and replace it with something that Linda likes and it much easier to maintain.  The picture is a creation by Linda using mostly our own garden materials and 3 bales of straw we rounded up.  She has been really busy getting Fall flowers in place.  Her knee surgery comes up in 9 days and she wants to have her outdoor landscaping finished.   I have have been planting trees and also removed several yards of dirt that was piled next to a root cellar--aka "Bomb Shelter" or "Dorothy's Hou...

This weekend was the Senior Games District track and field qualifier for next summer's Tennessee  State Finals, which qualifies you for the 2015 National meet--Ponzi would be proud.  You can't get out, because you can't get back in! The meet was next door to our place, at Ravenwood High School.   As a note, Ravenwood lost this weekend in overtime to Overton in football.  It was probably the best high school game I have ever watched.   A real barn burner that came down to a failed 2 point conversion on OT.  It had everything, what a game. Overton is your traditional run team with only 5 passes attempted all game with 1 converted.  Ravenwood is up tempo, no huddle passing attack, with some really good skill players.  45 yard field goals and even a kicker that can send kick offs thru the end zones!! Overton is 6-0 and Ravenwood is 4-1.  Both will make the playoffs in my opinion.  Both are great prog...

The kitchen paint has been completed and it looks great.  New curtains, updated lighting and some slide out cupboard trays are on the way.  Things are looking better inside the Ole Fly House.     I am also working on some outdoor projects just to make sure I get to do a little sweating. These projects require shovels and pick axes.  Last week I was in Memphis and did some running in Shelby Farms and also on the local sidewalk.   I did got in some good workouts with my run the walk methods.  Run at a brisk pace and then when the heart rate gets to 98%, walk until it goes back down to 80% and repeat, repeat, repeat....    Next week I will be in southern Arkansas and next weekend is the district qualifier.  So, I hope we get some cooler weather and I can find some where to do some speed work if I feel good.   So, I have another week to stay fit and then I think a break may be taken f...

New Kitchen paint!! I am traveling today and have three hours to kill in the Las Vegas--aka lost wages airport.    This is a really really busy airport, but the eating choices are quite limited.  I was looking for a 'sit down' restaurant that would be good to get some brunch and while away a little time.   Sammy Hagar's Bar and Grille is close as I got.   Oh well the eggs were good.    I also inhaled a bear claw for a follow up snack.   They do have slot machines in the airport, which take up a lot of prime real estate needed for walkways and seats. The engineering crowd is always looking for the free flow of materials and that does not happen here, the people are always crowded in the areas that accumulate and get stuck-- bad engineering at its finest.   This place is crowded enough without the one armed bandits getting in the road.  I wish they would outlaw them and smoking all in...

Linda and I participated int he Franklin, TN  Franklin Classic 5K race today.  It is run through the streets of downtown Franklin starting and ending on the town square.   I was trying to break 30 minutes for a 5K which has been a goal of mine for several years.  I came up a little short of my goal, but put in some great effort.   I ran a 30:53.  Here are the excuses--it was humid, really humid and race traffic was pretty heavy for the first 1/2 mile.   But, I doubt I would have broken 30 minutes in perfect conditions.   I ran most of  race at 98% heart rate and had to do a fair amount of walking to get the heart rate below 165.  169 heart beats per minutes is my calculated maximum.   I enjoyed the race and there was a lot going on with different groups cheering on their runners.   There was around 3000 people running the 5 and 10 K events.  Linda walked the 5K.  She has been having s...

The North Face of this project is not as threatening as the North face of Everest.  Whew!!  I finished the second major part of rock fest and I am convinced that I may have the strongest ass in Williamson County.   I used up the rest of my rocks tonight and have the tree that was being threatened by erosion protected  the best I can.  The next 3 inch rain storm will tell the real story.   This is the most basic bull work you can imagine.  My finger nails are gone, hands are just junk and my back is sore.  I have used a lot of really bad lifting technique the last week, but my back is hanging tough and as a result will be much stronger coming out of this project,  Power is in the hips, I am convinced.  With power you get speed,  I will test that out at the end of September. As a youngster, I was skinny and bony but still had some great speed.  The only thing that I can figure caused the speed was gene...

What is your first thought-- old washed up hair bands, AC/DC,  Aerosmith, Iron Maiden????  No,  Rockfest is latest project on the old Fly Farm.    I have been accumulating large stones  since we moved in last December and last week we started to make a water crossing in our stream and also buiding a wall to reduce erosion into our yard.  This is incredibly good excercise for the hips and legs.  Although my back and hands are sore, it is pretty good exercise for strength building. We built the crossing to get our mower to the meadow which we mow and have a garden of pumpkins, squash and sweet potatoes.  The first really hard rain we let us know how well we did, this stream can raise 8 feet in level quite quickly.   But today, it looks pretty good as the water tumbles over the rocks. We had a chance to do some research at the local library on our house.  It was built in 1880 by the Gray Family and later purch...

There is a lot of talk about an Olympics Boycott for the Sochi winter games in Russia.  Russia has passed some legislation restricting the promotion of gay lifestyles.   OK, they are not into gays and if we boycott these Winter Olympics--they will change their political beliefs............really??   When has an Olympic boycott ever worked???? The US boycotted the summer games in Moscow in 1980 because the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan.   Jimmy Carter made us the laughing stock of the world.  The only way the Soviets left Afghanistan is the US provided shoulder fired missiles to the locals and all the Soviet helicopters were turned into flaming scrap metal.  That caused a hasty retreat and the "war' was over.   I have very little  use for Carter, he meant well but could not delivery on anything during his Presidency.  The Soviets and Iranian laughed at him.   Let's not repeat this sham....

My wife's parents are in town this weekend, so we are entertaining between rain.  I has been a really wet year in Tennessee, which is great for gardening.  On the other hand, we are still mowing every 7 days and the grass is incredibly dense.  Mowing works the 26 HP mower pretty hard and the grass looks like windrows when you are finished.   We will continue to take advantage of the outstanding gardening season.  We planted turnips and turnips greens that sprouted in 4 days!!!  So I planted some carrots yesterday between rain storms, they may come up in 3 days--who knows.    We started to eat some of our second batch of sweet corn yesterday,  the Silver Queen was pretty good on the grill.  Linda was in the Brentwood library yesterday and found some pictures of our house.  In the background of one of the shots were two barns.  The pictures get the juices flowing to get a garage/barn/summ...

You only think you can leave Tulsa.    Did the Eagles do a song about never leaving somewhere as well??  Weather was fine in the US!!!  My flight was the one delayed about 3 hours because of...................mechanical problems.   If I seem bitter, I am.    I made it home Saturday about dark.  Delta Airlines managed to screw me out of a day of my life--I hate getting screwed like that.    I am going back to Tulsa next week--I am flying Southwest Airlines.   I have only been abandoned once by SWA and the weather was really bad as we circled Chicago Midway for an hour and I missed my connection.   Delta has left my hanging on three occasions I believe and each case left a real nasty taste in my mouth.    Their use of the regional jets is a losing proposition. When I parked this week at the Parking Spot at Nashville Airport, the attendence asked how was my weekend??...

When I left the TULSA ariport last night, they had a junk yard consisting of 3 planes that could not be flown!    OK Delta, you proved your point, that you fly junk, but this is rubbing salt into the wound a little.   I would like to calm down a little, but getting the hell out of Tulsa may be a problem.  Yesterday, I had a 6:00 PM flight to Memphis and then on to Nashville.   Pretty simple.   Our plane broke the steering on the way to the runway-- we were on the ramp leading to the starting line.   We had a tremendous shudder when it broke.  I thought a flat tire, but it was mechanical.   Anytime this happens, you are screwed-- just the way it is with Delta.     The flight attendant was pretty panicky, which did not help the situation on on RJR aka 'flying tube'.   Quote "there is not procedure for this sort of thing"   ...

This picture is me with Mark Carver from Nashville. Mark scored a silver in the 800 and 1500 m for 50 yr old men..  Lost both by a step.  The 1500 was a really good race. Well,  today I am in Muskogee, OK watching a tissue machine run really good on our chemistry.    So things in my work life are returning to normal.    Get on a plane, fly somewhere, go to work.   I will have some time to get in a little track work this week.  It is 95 degrees here and dry.  That is a real change of pace for me,  lately it has been constant rain everywhere I have been lately.    So, if I can get a chance, I know of a nice synthetic high school track near the casino where I can get in some training.   Work up a sweat and get in a good stretch. I also signed up for the Greater Nashville District Sr Olympics qualifier today.  I am going to keep my hand in and see how the training...

Ready to go in the 400 M final. I took inventory today and had some sore muscles and fatigued feet, but I felt pretty good.  I did not have to use any Red Hot  on the legs or any other medical techniques to be race ready.  I did my normal KT tape on my feet and was fine.   So, I am getting smarter and not going wild in the races-- the so called "staying within yourself" .    Today, Linda and I got to eat a real breakfast at Goody's Family restaurant.   It was wonderful, the first real breaksfast in 4 days--eggs,  bacon, potatoes--yum. We also went to the Rock n Roll HOF to see the Stone's exhibit and anything that was new since our trip there 10 years ago.    It quite a mixed crowd of old and young...... Now it is time to think about what to do next.   Do I continue to race,  give it up or switch to something else to keep me in shape???  I was really ready to ...

Well it was finals day for me at the Senior Nationals.  Partly cloudy, breezy and a in the low 70's.   Beautiful day to race.  The wind was shifting and it could be blowing down the finishing straight or into turn 4, either direction was a problem for very fast times.   As you can see in the picture I came in 5 th place at 62.13 seconds.  I picked up 2 full seconds from the prelim yesterday.   I was 1.4 seconds from getting a medal.   I started in lane 8, since I was the slowest qualifier.  I actually wanted an outside lane so I could run my pace and nor worry about the other competitors--you tend to start racing too early and kill your finish.   I got a good start and was in groove so to speak.  I did pick up my pace from yesterday.  Around 150 meters the winner passed me and I did pace with him down the backstraight.  I was still in good shape and started to accelerate a little in...

This image of me waiting in lane seven to run the 400 meter qualifier.  Sunny and warm with a persistent breeze down the finishing straight--in your face of course.  I made it thru-- got to the finals tomorrow in the 400!  I was eighth quick out of 25 runners with a time of 64.15 seconds.   I ran the 400 first and ran the 50 m later and did not qualify--more later on that.   I felt good in warm up and since I was in lane 7 with someone in lane 8, I had someone to pace me a little.  Yesterday, I really struggled in the last 50 meters of the 200 because I was used up and had nothing left-- a case of too much too quick.  I was not going to repeat that situation .     I ran my pace the first 200 and was really relaxed and had a really easy stride.  I felt like talking with the race marshals as I ran by them on the backstretch, I was relaxed!    I started to pick it up some on the fina...

I ran the 200 meter preliminary today and finished 11 th at 28.41 seconds.  I am out for the 200.   It was rainy and breezy conditions.   I felt OK, got warmed up good, let it rip.   I did tie up around the 150 meter mark and struggled to the end.  I was in second and was passed around 160 mark.   So I finished third in the heat.   The official results are on www.finishtiming.com  . The tab for the NSGA is on the right.   M 55-59 200 M preliminaries.  Tomorrow is 50 and 400 prelims.  The weather looks like it will clear and I will try again to make a finals. The relief after finally running at this level is immense.  The  fact of not knowing if 'you belong' or are 'just wasting your time' really helps.    I am alot more relaxed now, know the drill so to speak and need to step it up, these guys are fast and seasoned veterans of this gig.   I belong, but I ...

Linda and I made it to Cleveland with  little trouble and made it downtown to get signed in.   A lot going on in downtown Cleveland this weekend.   Sr Olympians all over.  My schedule is : Saturday--  200 meter qualifier--@ 11:00 am.  41 signed up.  One race and the 8 best times make it to the final on Monday  (9:15) Sunday-- 400 meter qualifier--@ 8:30 AM.  40 signed up.   Same deal--one qualifier race for everyone,  Finals on Monday at 11:15            50 meter qualifier at 10:22.  26 signed up.. One shot to qualify--fastest 8 times regardless of what heat you were in.   Monday-- all finals if I make them I went over to the track today( Baldwin-Wallace University) and the surface is very nice and fast.  A 90 year ran a 71 second 400 meters and set a record--wow!!  So this field is fast.    I also ran into Charles B...

Today I tried the best I could to keep my mind off the upcoming meet.  My mind is tricky and the best way I have found to get it off track is to do basic tasks that take time, motion, sweaty effort, and a little bit of ingenuity.   I did not work out at all, except for the manual labor involved my projects today.   My feet and ankles needed a rest, they were getting quite tried and sore.   My feet are one of my weak body parts. I did my usual work for my real job and then when I was caught up, I worked on a hydraulic project, some tree trimming, a little painting and a little grass planting. With all these low tech jobs using hammers, pry bars, fencing pliers, hoes, rakes, axes and chain saws, it was busy enough to keep my mind from racing off and running some races somewhere.   The beauty of having property that has a creek, old trees and brush--there is ALWAYS something to trim or eliminate.  Hopefully I burned enough energ...

Some loose ends to tie up--I did get the bridge chained down, so it will not disappear during one of numerous flash floods in the last several months.   Yesterday I did not work out, I worked in Memphis, so I spent a lot of the day driving.   Today I plan on some light running with no speed work.  Just get the blood flowing and burn some calorie and do a very thorough stretch.     My weight is back down to 196 after work outs and I am happy to get it back down after the layoff to heal.   No aches no pains........ Who is Nervous Nellie?   I am not sure if NN is a universal name for someone who cannot sit still or is constantly fidgeting, but where I was raised is was a common term.   I noticed yesterday while driving, that my mind would drift into some sort of competition and my heart rate would go nuts.   It will get worse as the first race approaches.  I turn into the Nervous Nellie-- a b...

First race is this Saturday.  Not much time to get the body ready, but plenty to get the mind and gear ready.  The gear should take an hour or so to make sure I have everything I need plus spares-- in case of rain or damage--stuff does break.   Later this week I will lay out all my stuff and make sure I pack what I need to race.   The mind--that is a totally different matter.   I am quite a bit more stable or confident after running on Sunday.  I did some starts with blocks and ran a couple of 50 meters at 98% with no problem with my leg.  The leg is healed up, but the mind still needs some convincing.  I guess I need to give it      " the talk".  I ran quite a bit of the workout at 85 to 90% and had no leg discomfort and felt pretty good about my speed.  The speed will be there, I just need to find a way to allow the body to take over and basically--'let it rip'.  I have no r...

Today I have alot to say.  As your life passes you get a chance to experience successes and failures and I have a lot of each.  The failures and bad times can dominate your life if you desire.   I have worked hard at making the good times and successes take the forefront in my life--I think it is the better way.  I still race for a lot personal reasons--it is great exercise, I love all forms of racing at the elite level, I am competitive, to need to challenge myself, it makes my wife quite proud and I have always had a burning to prove something.  That "something" is always changing, but how do I stack up against the big boys that are getting their name in the paper???  I have competed in a lot of  different arenas and getting to the top in each has always been that 'something'. I have rarely been in with the competition that is a push over, getting beat would happen if you cannot produce at your best. ...

OK, this is not a track or trail, but it is some really good exercise to get the hips, legs and back ready to run fast.  I have found that heavy lifting and really intense hard work has made my core much stronger and thus I feel  faster.   We have a piece of real estate called the "Peninsula" that is cut off from our main yard by two streams.   I wanted to have easy access to this little piece (1/4 acre) with the garden tractor without going through the bigger stream.   During the winter I cut down two very large Osage orange or "hedge apple" trees, and those trees were my construction materials.    Osage Orange is incredibly dense wood,   rot resistant for decades, and overall very hard to split and move.  So, I thought I would build a bridge over the "Troubled Waters" and make access much easier.   And I did.    I had two logs that I split with wedges, an 8 pound ...

I have ran four days in a row this week, which is a big spirit lift.   I have been really down and very low in any sort of confidence that my left leg could hold up under speed.   But, I have been doing a run/walk 5 K trail near my house with my low technology running shoes,  I have been running my heart rate up to 90 to 95% and then walking for a sort bit and then repeating.  The trail is quite hilly on the way out and it does work the heart and lungs quite well.  Typically I will only run two days in a row before resting a day or two.  But I decided to go at slower speeds and do several days in a row and make sure I could go at least three days in a row--which is the Nationals meet length for me.  In the three weeks prior to the Nationals--I have been trying to get the fitness level back up to where it was prior to injury.  And if the leg could not hold up, I would get out.  Pretty simple strategy.   The leg ...

After several weeks of downtime in an attempt to get my leg healed up, I did some 'testing' this week on July 8.   I went to the local track and warmed up really good and stretched out the best I could and did some tests.   I did some speed test on a 50 meter stretch of track using a running start.  The running start allows me to control the speed better the entire distance and also eliminates any hard starts that are risky when injured.  I ran  9.7, 8.5, 7.5 and a 6.9 seconds for the four attempts with the speed constant thru the distance. Each pass was slowly increasing the intensity.  I did not go past 90% intensity--I was not trying to 'let it rip' at this point.   Looking at the numbers, my speed is OK and the left leg was not an issue.  It was still causing a little discomfort, but was not hindering the running or speed.  So, if Gene Kranz would ask for status, I am replying --" we are GO Launch"  .*...

I have been resting my running muscles for over a week and I am getting restless.   I have planned to do my first running at speed on July 3, 4 or 5 in the the UP of Michigan. I will do an extensive warm up and stretch and do some 50 meters to get a  feel for the success of my resting, if that goes well, I will do some 200 meters and some 800 meters for fitness.   I think Linda will be manning the clock to be sure the numbers are legitimate.  That will be two weeks of total rest for my left leg,  and HOPEFULLY the rest has helped.   Linda and I are on Holiday this week. Our activities have been a wedding in Green Bay over the weekend, visiting kids this week, as well as trip to Gladstone, MI for some more family events and local July 4 festivities.  We have been eating at our favorite local restaurants and sleeping in ( at least I have been).   It is a leisure lifestyle to say the least, but the restlessness is...

The Tennessee State Finals for the Senior Olympians was last weekend and I did not race.  My injury to my left leg or hip--some where in that area kept me on the sidelines.  Last week I iced it a lot and took Aleve regularly to get the swelling down.  I think it helped, but too little , too late.  I finally had some discoloration in the leg area, where it is connected to the core.  Late week I was in Lewiston, Idaho  and it was really a hot day with brilliant sunshine. I found a nice high school track that was synthetic and thought I would would see if I could race.    I had a great warm up, 95 degrees helps a lot, and tried some 50 meters at 70 % and 80%.  80% was over the limit.  With 4 days til the race and my leg at 70 %. I was a scratch.  That sucked.   A lot of training and nothing to show for it. So, I packed up my gear and limped to the hotel. I did get quite a bit o...